Sex - Fun or fulfillment?
JACK
My sexual experiences: I was a child during the roaring twenties, reached puberty during the depression, survived the traditional forties and the Noble War, the conservative fifties, the sexual revolution of the sixties and seventies, and the return to tradition to the end of the twentieth century. I now am looking to you, Hillary, to tell me what the sexual mores are like in the 21st century. Where are we now on the morality chart? How does your generation look at sex and survival?
HILLARY
Wow, you know what? This is a hard question for me since my history is very unique. You know that I am a survivor of incest, so my first sexual experiences were far from positive. Even after the abuse had ended, I still participated in sexual relations that were destructive and demeaning. So, for me, I no longer engage in casual sex because I find that it leaves me feeling used, like I was as a child.
That being said, there is a great deal of casual sex being had by people of my generation, without judgment. If someone is new to being single, they are expected to go out and have multiple encounters. Recently, a group of my friends got together for a weekend out of town, and there were several trysts, without any love or hope for a significant relationship.
It is very rare, and almost frowned upon, to have NO sexual experience. Young people want to enjoy their sexualities and share that level of connection with another, regardless of their relationship ambitions. No one I know wants to marry a virgin any more.
JACK
I’ve always prided myself in being a free thinker, but what you say saddens me. I am not judging casual sex. I am saying that sex is not a single experience and something very definitive is missing when the emotion is not there. My youth had many sexual fantasies that were looked at with awe. Actual experiences became landmark events to be long remembered. Before I became involved in a significant relationship it was like a kid stealing candy and enjoying it to the full extent. In the 40s, almost all the girls I met were determined to be virgins until the wedding night. ‘Making out’ was the order of the day and, under most cases, frustrating at the end of the evening. My experiences during WW2 were both exciting and totally satisfying. Seems like the guard was down, and the palace, after being stormed, was taken with pleasure. But there was nothing that came close to the satisfaction, excitement and fulfillment that came with commitment and marriage, and we still waited for the first night. From what you tell me in today’s world, this is a very rare experience.
HILLARY
There is one segment of the population that continues to value abstinence until marriage, and that is the religious quarter of our society. These are really the only people that I know that do not engage in any type of casual sex, but they are almost a joke to the average young person.
JACK
This is, once more, proof that everything exists in a period of time. What is the cliché? You get a medal today for what you may have been hanged for yesterday. But the real question is: What do the young and middle-aged really want, and need, in their relationships? I must even extend that to old people. I have been involved philanthropically with a home for the aging, and during one of my visits I learned that sex was definitely a problem. I’m talking here about an institution where the average age is 90.
HILLARY
Why was sex a problem?
JACK
The problem was that even at this advanced age, the sex drive was still there. The institution did not allow single people to stay with each other; therefore there were a surprising number of geriatric marriages. This reminds me of George Burns’ favorite line to a 20 year old chorus girl on his 90th birthday. George said to her, with a twinkle in his eye "Have you ever had sex with a 90 year old man?" The girl giggled and said, "Oh, Mr. Burns! How can you ask a question like that?!" Without batting an eye, George Burns replied, "It’s a lot laughs!"
Humor, it’s a wonderful element of the sexual experience.
HILLARY
So maybe it’s just me. Maybe my friends have it right. Perhaps I would be happier finding someone with whom I can have carefree sex, without commitment. Is that what you’re suggesting??
JACK
Whether the act comes with or without commitment, I am suggesting that a sense of humor is always a positive element. Before I was married I used to boast that I laughed more women into bed than any other way. I’m sure that physically a good laugh dramatically eases the tension and does make everything better. This is not to demean the fulfillment and the search of positive emotion. To me, there is nothing more beautiful than an even exchange of passion and love, but I agree with your generation that religious virginity is totally archaic in our place in time.
HILLARY
I don’t know, Jack. I think that offering my husband my virginity on our wedding night would have been an irreplaceable gift. There is nothing new for me to do with the man I marry, in this context. I have done it all. That purity is something that I am never going to get back, and that makes me sad.
JACK
I hope that is not the case. There is no real manual for intimacy, and there is no limit to the exploration of the unknown that you will find in that special relationship. I equate this thought with a feeling of infinity there is no end to the wonder in a new and significant experience.
HILLARY
I hope that you are right.
Communication is inspiration! Share your thoughts below.
6 Comments
Leave a reply
Wow, what a provacative experience your conversation was on this subject. As someone in show business, hot in the 70 and 80 as they say, I was certainly a free thinker but my experience in Syria was so mind blowing and to share it I feel personally like a hypocrite because of how free and induleged I was.
debbie boggs 10/17/06 @ 11:24 amIn Syria, there are no drugs, no AIDS and no premartial sex. Now, with that said, my husband and I did not practice that, which his family accepted (how hard that was I don’t know) but I never was treated with any difference. But after six months I was walking through this small village (maybe 1/4 sq mile) and thinking one day why this society was so different then mind. That is why. These kids, like all kids want to be with there friends but they RESPECT their family and obligation. I see so many things on the news and it boils down, in my opionion to drugs and sex. I guess I think that way because I was from the Drugs, Sex and Rock and Roll, now there just isn’t rock and roll. My husband runs a liquor store and believe me, if you want to know what is really going on in your neighborhood, talk to guy who runs the liquore store., for you Jack he is local.
Anyway, as someone with extensive experience, respect and trust is a major turn on. We need to get back to more family involvemenet, family values, quit being so politcally correct. If you discipline your kid like I was (which was maybe 2 times because the guilt talk from my mother was worse) they will respect you. Eating dinner together is important. As much as I love the internet and it’s powers it like drugs, may cause us way more problems.
Enough said
Debbie
Debbie,
Many thanks for sharing your experience. Your time spent in Syria sounds fascinating, as does the 70s - of which we are more aware. You make one point that is enormously important: We must understand each other’s culture. In my travels around the world at how little our diplomats truly understood. I spent a lot of time in the Orient, and I actually had one high-placed diplomat tell me that “all Orientals are alike.” Not only should we be more cognizant of who shares this globe with us, but we should be talking with them and doing business. Somehow or another, you don’t kill people with whom you are communicating. This is one of my major points: Establish a dialogue.
Thanks again,
Jack 10/17/06 @ 12:50 pmJack
I can’t begin to tell you about sex without some kind of connection. Had both. The jokes Jack, I so agree with, do make it easier and it is how I handled too much attention and pressure, but I also agree with Hillary about the pressure to experience. That is a two double edge sword for me. Worthwhile in both directions. What troubles me the most, I grew in the Rat Pack time, Las Vegas and where you still got “dressed up” to got out. This binge drinking thing, even though in the 70’s we were it, this is a “de-humanized” act. I work with young folks and they don’t even call it dating, it is just hooking up, which in certain sutiations is cool, but as the entire experience of dating, now thanks.
debbie boggs 10/19/06 @ 11:13 amThat I don’t believe was ever what it was supposed to be.
I’m sure I will get some flack on this one, but in my opinion, as a good looking over spoiled gal, I can tell you that everything boils to down to what support system you got as a child and more importantly how you feel about yourself. I personally think that the school systems should provide a full Dale Carnegie course, because it proivdes you a personal survival plan, which I have used myself, and builds your self worth, I saw it happen in my 12 week class.
Got to go and thanks Jack for your e-mail response.
Sincerely to all
Debbie
Americans finally realize the try-before-you-buy works just as well with sex as it does with commodities. Rather than marrying and then shacking up with hot sex coming after the nuptuals, Americans are increasingly putting out before putting on the wedding rings.Women are just as likely as men to get it on before matrimony.
Xander 12/27/06 @ 2:45 pmI think this is just the sign of the times. I mean, we like to test things, try them out, before making a purchase. Why should sex and marriage be any different? The stigma associated with pre-marital sex is dead. Long live free love!
Jack,
We met not long ago and I became intrigued by your story, and excited to view your blog. I came for the first time today to see what you had to say. Frankly I am saddened by the remarks of the previous article. It seems almost like you gave in to the “signs of the times.” Hillary made the comment that to offer her virginity to her husband would be the greatest possible gift. I could not agree more, unfortunately too many young people, those in my age group, have lost that choice. They have given up the right to give that gift to their spouse. Jack you claimed to be an “independent thinker” I see very little independence in thinking exactly as the status quo dictates, only because “times have changed.” The reality is that independent thinkers do not do something because the times say that it is ok, they do things because they have a personal conviction that the things they are doing are right, despite the times. We look into history and no doubt many of the great independent thinkers of this and other nations have been progressive, they have attempted to change the general population’s view of the world. But those who were truly successful were not just trying to fit into the future, they were trying to make it better, they had a vision of what was right and would stand up and fight for it. Whether or not casual sex is appropriate should not be a test of an age, it should be a test of character. Many will disagree with me, that is ok, we can still get along and disagree on a few things, but this is something I feel strongly about. And although there are many who disagree, there are also countless young people and people of all ages who determine everyday independent of what the media teaches, independent of what is taught on university campuses, independent of what there parents have taught, that abstaining from sex is the right thing to do. That precious wedding gift Hillary spoke of is still held highly by thousands of young people. I love the concept of crossing generational gaps through communication and open discussion, I commend you for that. I however hope that in the future you can offer more of the Jack that has truly made your life interesting, the Jack who is a leader and an icon, not the Jack who is easily blown in the winds of time. Again thank you for your blog, the gift of the written language is more valuable than any of us realize I am sure.
Michael
Michael 01/12/07 @ 11:40 amMichael,
Jack Nadel 01/12/07 @ 1:57 pmMany thanks for your thoughtful comments.
I do pride myself on being an independent thinker but “independent” does not mean unchangeable.
In business and in personal life one must move with the times. It is very diffcult to project flexability when people refer to morality and religion. I have a problem with fundamentalists in both areas. I may change my feelings about sex but I hope I never change my feelings of respect for a non-malicious attitude. I will never respect bigotry but as I live in this world I must learn to understand it. I do respect your thoughts even if I disagree.
Thanks again for your comments,
Jack